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Modern vs. Classic

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Modern vs. Classic

Postby thatonesniperguy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:55 am

Sniper here. So, I've been hearing a lot of arguments about whether modeen games have surpassed classic games in how "good" the games are. So, now I'm curious as to your opinions on the matter...

So, what kind of games are better? Modern, or classic?

I side with Classic. GO!
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby chrisb » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:42 pm

I do feel storytelling has definitely improved compared to retro games. I'm starting to lose a bit of interest in games, but a good story pulls me right in. BUT. Games no longer fill me with a sense of wonder and adventure games like Nights into Dreams or Super Mario 3 did. I wish games would bring back the charm while still giving us mature story telling. Super Paper Mario came close though.
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby ThePaul » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:01 pm

I enjoy modern games immensely. Sure, there are some classic PSone and N64 classics that fill me with nostalgia, but for the most part I don't miss a lot of the mechanics that some people tend to claim made those games so much better than what we play today.
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Bear » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:55 pm

Modern games, like all human endeavors that are modern, build upon a large foundation of past experience and lessons that can propel them to greater heights than those that inspired them. People are getting better all the time and a lot of that has to do with an unending passion for the medium coupled with the will to produce the very best they can.

I think a lot of issues that stem from modern games is that they can tend to be too muddled which can result from teams that are too large; teams that are poorly directed and/or coordinated; and teams that have poor vision and/or focus or a Molotov cocktail of those elements or anything else that can go wrong with large undertakings.

The generation that grew up loving classic games are established in the field and making amazing games that can outshine the classics in big ways. We also have some startlingly talented kids, teenagers and young adults that know what good games are and are making the next big thing right now. Digital distribution and indie development has taken hold in a big way with a much more modest barrier to entry to get funded and discovered and teams of people are breaking away to make the things that they are passionate about and feel are missing all the time. I believe we are experiencing a renaissance in game development that will deliver us some truly magnificent works!

I love 8 and 16 bit games, but I wouldn't want to go back...ever. I love that there are more simple, yet stunning, looking games like Fez and Sword and Sworcery (among so many others) that are inspired by the classics, but stand defiant to not use retro as a gimmick and want to deliver new and fresh experiences that can help rekindle our vivid imaginations by showing enough, but not too much, and provide worlds that teem with life.

Finally, classic should be rethought as what it really is. ANY game that can stand the test of time as being a work of genius, "a perfect example of a particular style". I dare anyone to challenge Minecraft as anything other than "a classic". The thing is, a lot of times I feel our judgement gets clouded from reminiscing about our childhoods and unfairly color the things that inspired our passion as being "the best".

"The generation gap means the war is never won. The past is in your head, the future's in our hands!"
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby thatonesniperguy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:32 pm

Rational, thoughtful responses? No arguments breaking out? No trolls? I think I'm on the wrong Internet...but I like it.

Bear, you have a very good point in what you're saying. I agree with a lot of it. However, the reason I lean more towards classics isn't so much the nostalgia or the "retro" feel, but rather the inherent simplicity and sheer fun of the games. I don't mean to say modern games AREN'T fun...but a lot of the games made nowadays are just too complex to really just sit back and enjoy. You have to take the time to master every single aspect of the game before you can even think about getting comfortable, and it's extremely frustrating when you can't figure out what to do in a given situation.

I know this applies to classic games as well, but when you only have to keep track of 8 buttons instead of 16 and 2 sticks with variable adjustment...well, the mastery comes faster, and you can spend more time having fun and enjoying the actual game instead of having to learn a ton of functions and commands that you have to know if you want any chance at progress in the game... *thinks of Command and Conquer*

Storywise, I agree that they have been getting better; it's only natural. But when it comes down to just having fun, nothing beats my SNES emulator with Megaman X or NES with the original Bionic Commando.

Well, that's my full opinion on the subject. Feel free to correct me on any technical mistakes, and tell me if you think I'm wrong. Who knows? I could be.
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Adol The Red » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:09 pm

Epic , brah!
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Alexx » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:18 pm

Well I'll try to stay unbiased here, 'cause I recently got a new NES and have been playing it classic.

What I feel is that there is no "better" in the equation. Classic games and modern games have different skills that are required to play and enjoy them. Same goes for even older stuff like Atari games 'n such - the point of those were high scores! Remember those? I was never a big fan of those 'cause I wanted to see how far I could get...enter the idea of different levels. Scores were still around at first, but seriously, I never paid attention to my score in Super Mario Bros - I was trying to get as far as I could!

I'm skipping way ahead, but nowadays I think the point is surveying and planning. Here's what I'm saying: you're playing Mega Man 2 and you keep dying. Why? 'Cause you're not prepared for what's ahead. You have to keep doing it until you memorize it and becomes quick enough to respond to things as they happen. Nowadays you're not looking at things from the side; you're looking at them from the back. You have the lay of the land ahead of you. You may have junk in your way, but you sure aren't going to go around the bend and fall in a pit of spikes, at least not after the Crash Bandicoot and Mario 64 days (which I sorta consider the mid-way point between side-scrolling action and 3D action, kinda like Super Mario Bros was a midway point between getting high scores and getting as far as you could). Nowadays you're going to see what you need to do and plan ahead. You're still using skill, but it takes less patience.

Now - OF COURSE - I'm way over simplifying this. Just a basic idea of my thought process here. As I said, there is no "better" because there are so many different ways to play...AND those ways are evolving and merging. There are still 3D games that require patience and memorizing, and there were plenty of side-scrollers that allowed you to plan ahead (and many more are being made nowadays).

Anyone ever played R-Type Final? If not: you start out with a few space ships to fly around. As you use them, it unlocks new ships. Certain ships could only be split off from certain other ones. So if you kept using the one with the long barrel cannon, then you get better versions of the long barreled cannon...but you can only go so far before the long barrel is as good as it gets. To get a new ship, you have to go back to that original long barrel and play it some more, and a variant on the idea is spawned. You get long barreled cannons that make the beam fired bigger, or ones that fire them longer but are smaller. Sometimes two ideas from other ships merge into a new idea.

Hopefully you see where I'm going. Some classic games have evolved into newer ones, but that doesn't mean that, for instance, Mario 64 is an evolution to Mario Bros. It's a whole new way to play - it's a different game. It takes different skills to beat Mario 64 than it does to beat Mario Bros. Just like it took different skills to beat Pitfall or Pacman. Classic isn't better than modern or vice versa. Everything either evolves from one thing or another or splits off and becomes something new - then sometimes those things bounce back and merge into yet another new thing that has the potential to evolve or split off into yet another new thing.

One final thing: I think the problems and the arguments stem from the same place that any of these kinds of arguments come from. They come from the fear of being left behind, or the fear of alienating your previous group when the rest aren't coming with you. Same goes for old folks hating whatever the new kids are listening to, but now that Video Games are popular you're gona have to add that one to the pile. No one wants to see thier hard-earned skills go to waste, so they sometimes look at the skills the young kids have as not as "hard core" as thier own. The truth is that it's all skills - just different sets. My young nephew may not be able to rip through Contra like I can, but likewise I can't really manage to aim well in Leaft 4 Dead and if anything is actually shooting at me I feel like a moron and can't turn fast enough or blah blah blah. We're both good at what we do. It's all games. On that playing field, we can all shake hands.
"Since you got here by not thinking, it seems reasonable to expect that, in order to get out, you must start thinking." ~ Tock, the Watchdog
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Eccs » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:22 pm

Overall I don't think that either Modern or Classic games are better, there are those golden gems and nuggets of games that I hold closely to my heart for both genres. I don’t think the issue with modern or classic games is which one is necessarily better but which one has had a more lasting impression on us as gamers.
Not sure if it is just me but I have actually been thinking about this for a little while now, I am not quiet sure what triggered it. Part of it maybe that games are cheaper to get these days, compared when I was younger and in school, where I would be saving up for months on end waiting to get that one game that I had my sights on and there was all that anticipation and excitement. Also now that I actually have a source of actual income I can always pick up a game every now and then.
As Alex said games are in a state of evolution and are being constantly changed and modified. As evolution goes, sometimes a game evolves and changes so much it’s completely different from its origins, other games evolve while still remaining true to its beginnings and in some cases you get the odd mutation that goes into an evolutionary dead end.
Some game series have managed to adapt to this ongoing sequence of evolving the same game over and over quiet well. While other games have tried to do the same and have in my opinion crashed quiet horrendously and horribly. (Sometimes the issue is sequel to the game is expected to be better than the last; or expectations were too high)
^
I have examples of both but I feel that the list would lean towards a whole lot of xbox/ps bashing and glorification and worship of nintendo @_@
In terms of this evolution I feel that games have evolved steadily from classic to modern to have a great emphasis on multiplayer/online/team competition. This is probably one of the best selling points of modern games; however it could also be an Achilles heel. Although multiplayer has been there for a while now I think it has become increasingly important especially since the internet is just so prevalent these days. Almost everyone no matter what country can get access to high speed internet.
On one hand it’s awesome, since its always more fun to play a game with other people, but when your friends aren’t around where can we find this? ADLS and high speed internet makes this quiet easy.
However, there have been countless times where I know people have been cursing and getting frustrated where people just completely go off their heads. Enter the Game Rage, most notably for MOBA/FPS/Mario games (I mean who doesn't get annoyed when their team member throws them off a cliff for fun? Or when you’re teamed with the most retarded people possible*)
* I know my brother suffers this problem almost everyday. /ok

I think the appeal for classic games is the opposite for modern games being not so focused on the solo play (although there is multiplayer capability). It’s more of honing your skills on the game and you are measured by your score or how far you get into the game. I think classic games although simpler and easier to grasp were also inherently more punishing in that once you were dead you had to start over. Or on the rare occasion you were given that nice golden ticket with the code that lets you start off at the latest level you completed.

On the whole if there is anything for me to complain about I guess it would be I miss the times when game developers creating new games that people can just sandbox in for hours on end. I know there have been a few of these nice types of games, but personally I would like to see a bit more. It all comes down to development costs of doing something and it just isnt profitable enough mostly.
For that one I would probably give three cheers to Skyrim, especially with all the new content that they released for the ps3 recently that was available for the xbox for a while.

Now if those pesky Ancient dragons could stop eating my Shadowmere /pif
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Soeroah » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:43 pm

I really don't know. I like new games fine, sometimes even more than the old games, but at the same time I wish new Monkey Island or Sam and Max style point-and-click adventure games would come out and the like. I like new games modeled on classic ones, I suppose.

Modern games are starting to feel a bit too samey. Not all of them, not the majority even, but the ones you see the most.
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Re: Modern vs. Classic

Postby Bear » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:35 am

This is a wonderfully thoughtful thread, thanks for starting it Sniper~

I really like your take Alexx, I completely agree that these sorts of conversations stem from alienation and feelings of being left behind, which, lets face it, affects a lot of human endeavors outside of just gaming. Forging ahead, constantly trying the new, and searching to reinvent yourself can feel uncomfortable and foreign, and yet paradoxically is necessary. These things take you out of your element and puts you somewhere strange and you feel like you need to protect your identity by championing the things you are familiar with even at the expense of the new things that are trying to establish their own unique voices. Even for those who can't or would rather not adapt, life would be much more grand if we simply shared mutual respect. Of course, it takes a certain strength of character to be able to humbly pass on the torch and recognize and/or herald the new.

Soeroah, I really think that is what drives me a lot to indie games because I think that your thoughts are not uncommon and we seem to be seeing indie devs out there making the stuff we miss. I'm sure you heard of a.k.a. Double Fine Adventure, a.k.a. Reds, the game Double Fine started the gaming Kickstarter trend with. Well, there is also which Pie and I have been interested in for a while, which looks like it also has a lot of promise and is actually out! I think the great stuff is out there, we just need to chat about them and share some links!

Yay forums! XD
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