Life in Aggro's Reception

[Bear]

I'm really starting to wonder about the work that Pie and I are doing on the comic... I already have my own insecurities and doubts about what we do, but for the most part I just figure...if we do what we enjoy and find funny then we will be able to find an audience and do well.

The problem though is that I'm starting to worry that something I had wondered for quite some time is true...that Pie and I have a sense of humor that is too far disconnected from many people to be successful. We already know that strong art has nothing to do with how good a humorous comic is - its all about the writing and delivery and that, no matter what, content is king. Many times though, we have a really strong feeling about a comic and it doesn't *seem* to be well received and other times I felt unsure of a comic only to find it do better than others I thought were shoe-ins.

Take today's comic () as an example. Pie and I thought was pretty good and we laughed a bit at it and thought it we would get featured on no problem. But come time for the Weekly Wrapup, and we're not listed. When I check Facebook, I see only one person liked it when 2 people liked the Chrono Trigger comcic). Likewise, not much being said on Deviant Art.

I look at other fellow comic creators and we are way behind them in terms of Facebook followers and traffic...many many things, even if they started not much longer before us. Inevitably I have to start wondering if we are on the right path at all. A lot of times Pie and I see other game comics and they don't make us laugh, but they are received much better than ours. For instance, one of my personal faves of ours, didn't even make it onto Joystiq and even though it had 400 impressions on Facebook, only one person "liked" it.

Are we too edgy? Too much sexual humor? Are we trying to cater to adults when the fanbase is mostly kids? Are our senses of humor just too far out there? Not frequent enough in updates? A mix of that and more?

I just have this feeling like we would be doing much better if we did simple puns and smaller comics instead of big orchestrated ones...which is not what I want to do. We intentionally made Life in Aggro self contained with a bit of story in each - it isn't a super in-joke to gamers only...but that's what made PA successful...so maybe we are just totally off base? I mean, we wanted to be different from PA since a lot of times we don't get the jokes they make if we haven't played the games their talking about...but I guess if that's what most gamers want...then we are totally lost?

I dunno @_@ Maybe I'm just being neurotic...

[Soeroah]

Unfortunately, I don't know what I can say to help- nothing you wouldn't know already. I mean, it's obvious that different people have different opinions on things, and in some cases you might be hard-pressed to find two people who agree on what makes a comic humourous. I've always been told that you can't please everyone. I've never really been motivated to read Penny Arcade, which has a large online presence, but I've read each issue of Life in Aggro despite finding it mostly by chance. I think there are enough people out there on the Internet to make the project worthwhile, but I wonder about the exposure- perhaps many of those who would enjoy it are unaware of it.

I laughed at the Monkey Business comic, but it was mostly because, to me, it seemed completely random. My gaming knowledge is fairly focused and I haven't heard of Muramasa apart from it being a sword used in multiple Japanese stories, so perhaps I was missing a joke there.


Sorry I didn't really say anything helpful x.x I hope everyone gets their groove back in a timely manner. I know it sucks to feel that way, so I hope the feeling passes soon.

[Bear]

Thanks a ton for the input Soeroah!

I'm sorry if I came off as whiney or unhappy in my OP. I can't even tell you how much I cherish everyone that reads our comic now and how much it means to Pie and I to even HAVE an audience.

That being said though, we are always self critical - maybe even to a fault. I am also competitive by nature, so I am always trying to up the game in considerable ways to close the distance between us and "them" - though usually the biggest competitor I have is myself... I always feel the need to fight and get better than where we were even just a week ago.

I think a big problem I personally have is that I really am weary and even somewhat dislike the idea of self promotion. Sometimes I swallow my...pride?...I guess... and go ahead and contact game sites in hopes of getting the word out there. I've been doing this a lot with Joystiq, Kotaku and Dorkly lately, but Joystiq is hit and miss and Kotaku and Dorkly straight up won't feature us. I guess we aren't in a style their editors like? Who knows?

Yeah, I love the PA guys so much - as guys they seem like such great people. They've accomplished a lot and touched a lot of people through their charity and I have to give them mad props for that. The thing is though that their humor has become less and less my tastes over the years and Pie and I definitely wanted something different in LiA.

Over time, we've sort of hit on what we want in the comic: a self contained game themed comic that can appeal to hard core and casual gamers alike. I always liked trying to have some universal humor in there so even if you didn't know the game, you could still get the joke, but maybe if you DID play the game you would get more out of it. I really like that style and we won't deviate from it because we have fun with it and we like doing it.

Tonight I was having a conversation on Facebook with some of our followers there, and it helped me look at things in a little different light. I talked it over with Pie, and we are going to try changing format soon to do more frequent short form comics. I used to think "oh man, i cant even fathom doing our style jokes in a short comic", but after playing around with bonus stage and our recent comics, I think we could do it in a short form (4-6 panel, 2-3 rows).

I thought and turned out rather well in this style, and we could realistically do that 2 or 3 times a week. So we are going to try that for maybe a couple months and see what everyone thinks. I'm actually pretty excited after having talked it over with Pie...so much so that now I can't sleep at 4am on Sunday morning...despite being up since 8am @_@. Sorry for the long and unedited post. >_<

[RollCasket]

Well, I'll say first that this really must be bugging you guys cause this is the second topic about this. There's nothin wrong with worrying that the comics are being well liked and received but there is such a thing as worrying too much, you don't want to seem insecure =P

In any case, because art and humor is so subjective, it's impossible for every comic to be a hit. There are a few comics I check on a regular basis and all the time there are some that I'm pretty "eh" about. I've said it before but I'm one of those few people it seems that doesn't like Penny Arcade, but there are a few comics every now and then that I do like from them.

I do like the latest comic, but I also loved Muramasa. Still, I wouldn't worry about getting featured all the time either =P

edit: I dunno if this forum is eating my posts/PMs lately...it seems like it is...x.x I had to hit Back and few times and re-submit it

[Bear]

Hmm, well, there is definitely a little bit of insecurity though I'm not sure that can be really helped. Sometimes it may just be me being impatient though that drives this. Like I said I think I may just be neurotic. I'm always analyzing and evaluating and trying to fine tune the process...making sure we are on track, doing our best and growing.

The need for constant growth is, in very large part, because we have to. There was going to be a post this Wednesday about it on the actual site, but basically Pie and I have no recourse if LiA isn't successful. I'm positive that we can stick to what we love and make things work, while still delivering a comic we enjoy doing in the format we prefer. We have to stick to our values, and we have to keep pushing ourselves to do be better.

That said though, If I don't keep asking how we are doing and trying to switch things up, I get the feeling we will stagnate and not grow. I've thought maybe I shouldn't bother out of fear of sounding weak or timid, and I don't want to give off that impression either. In the end I'm relatively confident that things will work out, but I'm not without my own character flaws and doubts but I don't want to drag you guys down, that's the opposite of what we want XD

I just want to have some open dialogue on it from time to time so Fei and I get a little bit better ideas on where to improve. There is always room for improvement, after all~

[RollCasket]

Yeah when I originally wrote the reply your 2nd post wasn't there, but I had to repost it so...yeah, the first post had more of a worried tone and such =P

It's not to say that the site/comics can't and shouldn't grow, but I think mainly it's just impatience. When you look at any comic that's been around a while, look back at their beginning comics...the writing, format, and most especially art are not nearly as polished as the newest comics. I know you're eager to get the train moving but it does unfortunately take a bit of time.

I and some others have already given a few pointers, though obviously as said, it's all subjective and what I like/want is different from other people. I do think however that maybe spending some extra time to talk about each comic as you make it, and even after you finish it, let it sit for a while, like a day (dunno what kinda schedule you guys are doin em on) and look over it again and see how you like the strip then. As much as it seems like the PA guys have it down to a science now, I remember listening to a podcast they did that was pretty informative on their process and in the end product the joke was entirely changed from their original idea.

I'm not saying spend all week on each strip, but some extra "gestation" time could prove helpful for some strips I believe.

[Bear]

Looking back at this thread I should probably remember to not write/post immediately without giving some more thought to the situation. I think the big concern about feedback and being featured stems from lack of good dialogue on stuff. What I mean is, given the example of this weeks comic, if Pie and I thought, oh man this one is good, but we don't hear much of anything and the editors didn't think it warranted a spot, then it's easy to question if were on the right path.

Since we cant see the reactions to the comics, we're left wondering if it did well or not. We've had entire comics where we have thought "Oh this should be great!", but then maybe get like 1 comment on DA, and 1 like on Facebook. And complete silence otherwise. I can see our traffic, but I have no idea how that correlates into the reception on a week to week basis. Since Pie and I are mostly on our own with no local friends and stuff, we are completely left wondering. haha

I guess I have to just be more diligent about reaching out. Making sure I post the thread here each week and ask for thoughts and opinions. Starting an occasional topic on Facebook to ask what people's thoughts are. When we you Roll and Soeroah were responding and people on FB were pretty quick to chime in, it was a relieving breath of fresh air, just to even chat honestly.

God we need to get out more often...I think I'm going stir crazy.

Anyways, thanks so much for listening to me rant and sorry to be...totally unfunny in the process lol.

[Decaf]

Yes, post a new thread for each comic, it really allows for more focused discussion, and encourages it ^_^.

[RollCasket]

I could always start a thread on a strip if you don't get to it right away if ya want but obviously I can't comment on what went into the comic or much else other than my thoughts/opinion on it. Especially if the forums ever get big just managing them can become a job on it's own.

[Wooster]

I'm reminded of a study I read about how when blindfolded, people thought hotdog A and B tasted the same. But when revealed that hotdog B had green food coloring added to the mustard, the subjects then changed their story about how B tasted a bit odd.

Thus, it's less about the content as it is the delivery. You've got excellent content. You and Pie should be proud. It's the wrapping that makes your comic less then appetizing. If you can shape up your website, I'm sure you'll see vast improvements. You guys have the gusto to keep pushing your comic to the game sites. Keep that up, fix your image, and the sky's the limit.

I've said this before in private, but your site is about the comic, but the comic isn't the first thing people see. You're basically relying on people to find your comics by being linked to them. Not an excellent first impression.

Also, I'd highly recommend replacing the tree background, it's too in focus and fights for your attention.

Also, don't take the lack of noise as that people don't enjoy your comics. Remember the silent majority. They're quiet, but they're always watching.