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NC Amendment 1

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NC Amendment 1

Postby Kerreth » Tue May 08, 2012 9:31 pm

Take it away, Wil Wheaton.

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For those who aren't in the loop, North Carolina voters just passed Amendment One, which codifies in the state constitution that "Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State." In effect, it bars both same-sex marriage as well as civil unions/domestic partnerships. Unofficial results are saying around 61% of voters voted in favor of it.

What the fuck North Carolina? This is ri-goddamn-diculous.

Same-sex marriage was already not recognized there. But apparently, some people felt soooooooooo insecure about marriage, that they decided they'd make it even MORE illegal, as silly as "more illegal" sounds when you apply it to... pretty much anything. "You guys already can't get married, now let's make it so you can't get married." What?

At the very least, there's 3/4 of a country and a fucking ocean separating me from there. The civil unions that we have in Hawaii now (as of 1/1/2012) aren't perfect (I'm sketchy on the details but THEY EXIST), but hey, it's much better than all the states highlighted in red here.

In closing, North Carolina, here's some pseudo-SQL for you.

INSERT INTO North_Carolina VALUES ('Equality', 'Kindness', 'Common Fucking Sense')
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Adol The Red » Tue May 08, 2012 10:26 pm

Kerreth wrote:"You guys already can't get married, now let's make it so you can't get married."


It's bad enough that people waste so much time and effort on fighting gay marriage, but to pass a law if its already not legal is beyond rediculous. I don't know the details of the law they had or the one that has been passed, and I won't pretend to, but at a first glance this just comes off as petty and vindictive. We have real problems in this country, things that lawmakers ought to be addressing, but instead they waste time passing laws that only act to restrict freedoms. I can't see any other function of such a law.

What makes it more rediculous is that damn near all the people I've ever seen or met that are opposed to gay marriage are opposed for religious reasons. So, as far as I see it, you have state governments passing laws based on a religious view, which, last time I checked, isn't something we're supposed to do. Now, of course voters will vote based on their own concsious, which will include their religions, but that's why its up to lawmakers to make certain that the laws that come to vote have some actual function and aren't just prejudicial. (Just to be clear, I'm not accusing all religious people of sharing this point of view, I'm just stating what I've seen in my own experience.)

What's funny is even when I talk to people they can't ever give me a convincing arguement against it. One of my supervisors, who is an otherwise decent person, opposes it on religious views and claims it is "immoral." However, he could not define in what way it is immoral. It just is. I can only assume because someone told him it was. Immoral, like evil, is a dangerous word, because often times people that use it do so without an actual definition behind it. Anything you disagree with can be immoral, so its best to make sure you have your own functional definitions of these words before using them (at least that's how I feel.) For me, words like immoral and evil describe something in general harms or forces someone. Theres more depth to it, of course, especially with regard to "forcing." But even looking at harm, how does gay marriage harm anyone? Sure, it makes some people uncomfortable. So what? It's okay to be uncomfortable. You don't have to accept everyone else's views, but trying to stop something that does no harm to anyone at all just because it makes you uncomfortable... Well, now that seems to me to be immoral. I've also heard an argument about worry about children in that situation. Again, why? What is the harm? If your argument is you worry that it might make the children gay, then you still have to define what is actually bad about being gay first (and since kids like to rebel anyway, it's kind pointless to worry about). You could say that children need a mother and father, need both points of view. Okay, that's a good point. Now, how many kids have that even with male/female marriage with the divorce rate so high. Not to mention that both parents will more that likely be working full time jobs, and plenty of people arent married when they have kids in the first place. So banning gay marriage does nothing to lessen this concern, either. Again, I can see no function of such a law except to restrict freedoms. There is no immorality, no danger, to people being able to marry someone of whatever gender they damn well please. Love is love.

Of course, the opponents will scoff at the notion of love being involved. And they'll bring up that it is a choice. And all these other arguments that are, as I see it, bullshit. If you argue with these points, you are literally making stuff up to support your argument. I'll tell you what, I'm a man and being attracted to woment was not a choice I made. I am attracted to women, quite naturally. One of my best friends is gay, and for him being attracted to men feels just as natural.. He can quite readily confirm, it's just how he feels.

Sadly, I live in one of the burgundy states on that list. Of course, if it ever comes to vote, I will be first in line to help pass any law that legalizes gay marriage in my state. It boggles the mind that no matter what we do, or how far we come as a society, we still can't seem to get by without hating and oppressing one group or another. Of course, it is a free country, and people are allowed to have whatever view they please. And it is my view that choosing to hate something you don't understand or something that makes you feel uncomfortable is a sign of laziness and cowardice. And beyond that, it is not the governments job to propose any law that oppresses any member of this society. America is supposed to be about freedom, and yet here we are, still doing this. But hey, I guess its easier to isolate and pick on one group in our society than it is to try and fix the economy or improve education or deal with the myriad of real problems that are out there. No, instead lets take the time to propose, write, and put a law like this to the vote. Shame on our elected officials for even putting it up, and shame on us as citizens for voting in such a thing.

Wow. Okay, apparently this really got me going. Anyway, thats my take. And there is some hope. I recently read in interview with the New York Governor who proposed and got passed a law legalizing what they called equal marriage rights. At least, if I remember it correctly. He pretty much said it doesn't make any sense for this to be illegal. It was actually refreshing to read that not only did he make a good decision, but that a politician made a good decision because he thought it was common sense.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Fixxxer 117 » Tue May 08, 2012 11:20 pm

Not meaning to offend anyone here, but I am amazed at how retarted the American government can be sometimes. Although to be fair, Australia isn't perfect either. Take the age ratings on videos games for example. Long story shirt, some stupid person wants to make it so that people under that age of 18 can't buy ma15+ games, which kind if defeats the purpose of having the rating in the first place.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Farore » Wed May 09, 2012 2:22 am

Since it is pretty late and I am pretty tired I won't go into a ton of detail since many valid points have already been made. I will say that this entire fiasco that has been going on about gay marriage seems all to familiar.

Interracial marriage anyone? It was "wrong". It was going to "ruin society". Children wouldn't be raised correctly. People would spontaneously burst into flames any time one occurred. And a bunch more silly arguments that.. surprise surprise.. didn't turn out to be true. Bigotry and hate bred the opposition to interracial marriage, and it is doing the same for gay marriage.

People claim their opposition to gay marriage is to retain the sanctity of marriage. What sanctity I ask? We have people getting married and divorced (or annulled) in mere months, sometimes days even. Countless "couples" are married solely for tax benefits and breaks. Men and women that have been married into the double digits! Again, my brain is ready for sleep mode so I won't go any further with that.

I've heard that argument that gay marriage devalues marriage. Um... how exactly? Two people who have fallen in love want to solidify their commitment to each other before man and God. How is that different than a "regular" marriage? For that matter how is gay marriage hurting anyone? When a gay couple is married are 17 people struck down by lighting in the building next door? Is their limo driver destined to drive off a cliff? Is the earth itself going to open up and allow Hell to swallow us whole? I don't think so.

"I don't think it's right, so yes it hurts me." Every time I hear this argument I literally want to punch the person who uses it in the face. Hard. I don't think it's right that girls cake makeup on their face every day, but is it hurting me? Nope. Not even a little. I don't do it, but I respect the right of others to. I know that is kind of a horrible parallel to use as an example, but I'm going to cop out on the needing sleep thing again. The point is there are many things people don't think are the right thing, but that doesn't mean they are the wrong thing, either.

Why is it that a man and a woman that hate each other can be married, but two men (or women) that love each other can't? Marriage is so "sacred" that the entire purpose and commitment can be bypassed so long as it is a man and woman? Gah, the irritation that this entire argument brings me.

Finally, I personally have never heard an argument against gay marriage that didn't have a foundation in religious beliefs. Are the some? Possibly, but I doubt it. The majority of people that oppose gay marriage do so based on their religious beliefs. As Adol pointed out we are supposed to have a separation of church and state. This is a very clear breakdown of the system.

I can no longer think coherently and can't remember what all I've said, but hopefully I've gotten a few points across. Sorry if that jumped around a lot.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Kerreth » Wed May 09, 2012 2:31 am

This picture came up in my feed through Wil Wheaton's retweeting of it, and I just hope it turns out to be true.

"These two pictures will be viewed/judged identically by our children and their children."

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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Kerreth » Wed May 09, 2012 2:34 am

Also speaking of interracial marriage... FUN FACT: The last time North Carolina ever amended their constitution to modify marriage? It was in 1875. Know what it was for?

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Yep, banning interracial marriage. Hello parallel.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby chrisb » Wed May 09, 2012 2:09 pm

Sigh. I'm a religious person (very liberal), but keep religion out of the government please. Telling someone they can't get married because it goes against your religion is like telling people to stop eating McDonalds because you are on a diet.

Gay people deserve to get married. They seem to be some of the few groups who appreciate it anyway. This stupidity will pass just like segregation did.

Sanctity of marriage? How can the Kardashians bang and marry someone and get a divorce 1 weeks later, but 2 women or men who have been together forever can't?
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Bear » Wed May 09, 2012 2:16 pm

This whole thing is pretty silly to me. It's amazing how differently states can act on issues; they might as well be different countries. I was going to bring the whole interracial thing up too, but Farore already nailed it. Considering that when my mom and dad were married, it was considered a bit dicey for them, my mom being white and my dad being hispanic and all.

I sort of stopped getting worked up about this kind of stuff though. These sorts of things take time and it seems like a lot of adults don't bother challenging their biases or ways of thinking. Like Adol said, it feels like a bit of cowardice, but regardless people and their ways of thinking don't change overnight. Being upset at people who can't change isn't going to fix the issue either because there will always be people that way.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Kerreth » Thu May 10, 2012 5:48 pm

Well, there are a number of arguments that aren't directly religious, but:

A. They're mostly spouted off by devoutly religious people, and
B. See middle column.
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Re: NC Amendment 1

Postby Tehwilburforce » Fri May 11, 2012 6:52 pm

Yeah, my state is on that list of stupid ones... (Srsly... F**k Texas...)

Anyway, I can't help but be annoyed by people who feel the need to do this to the gay community. They are taking a religion which I have been raised to believe is loving and forgiving and using it to justify hatred of others. I could go on and on about what verses of the Bible are perfect for contradicting these idiots' claims, but I will refrain. Simply put, I think God just wants us to be cool to each other and help people because that's what you'd want for yourself, anyway. Also, indeed Crispy, despite my religious beliefs, I also highly advocate separation of church and state. It's one essential part of the constitution that keeps everyone happy and free.
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